05
Jan
10

Savior Synchronicity by Miz Pink

Yeah, I love Sting and I especially loved The Police, so I’m listening to “Synchronicity” right now. Maybe I’ll follow with a totally different artist and get the other half of the title covered with “Personal Jesus.”

Anyhoo here’s what this is all about: Has anyone (believers that is) like me considered how oddly perfect the arrival of Jesus was in terms of timing? How many ways that things just add up to say “Hmmmmm maybe there’s something to this Jesus guy?” while also leaving room for serious doubters or people who look just at the surface to say “It’s all made up!”

What do I mean?

Well firstly God operates from that whole faith thang. This has been the situation since he really started things going with Abraham even though it really goes back to Adam and Eve and telling them, “Just trust me.” But with Abe it was when he started making it clear that what he wants is our trust in him. Later this would evolve to having faith in God’s existence in the absence of him always having to pop up and do something dramatic. God doesn’t seem to want to do that and when he has to it usually meant all sorts of problems for the Isrealites, ya know? If God had to step in there tended to be ripples that weren’t always pleasant.

So secondly we have Jesus pop up at a time when historians are just really starting to become a force. Its a legit profession and all and people look to them to tell the story of what’s going on. So there are historians who mention Jesus’ existence. Even one who noted some of the strange environmental things that supposedly happened when Jesus gave up the ghost. It tend to be awfully dishonest intellectually speaking to say Jesus didn’t exist even if you deny his divinity.

This is important. As Deke has noted before several times we take at face value the fact that old documents of historical nature are accurate and good sources even though diligent historians were not as much in supply or in vogue as in Roman times. How many raggedy old historical documents do we hang on to know about the lives and accomplishments of ancient people. People who were around longer back than Jesus. Historical records that aren’t as numerous as the various copies and pieces of the gospel.

And what about that? No printing presses folks and yet so many copies in so many languages of the gospel. Why did people care enough to spread that word?

So thirdly the fact that people close to the time the gospels were written believed and yet no one in the power structure said “Jesus was a fake.” Blasphemer yeah. Sorcerer yeah. But no one said “He didn’t do those things he said he did and we the Jewish leaders of the time tell you he was a charlatan.” There were ample opportunities for people in power to debunk Jesus and no incentive for people to carry on his work and his message. I mean really the apostles? If my main man died when he told me he was the son of God I would run like hell and disavow him. There is no incentive to cash in and no reasons to keep following him. Almost all of them would ahve done what I would: curse the fraudulent bastards name and distance themselves for their survival.

Jesus’ message and legacy carried on because people had to have some sign that he was real. Coming back from the dead would be a good way. So either he did it (came back from dead) or he pulled off the biggest Elvis-style hoax around and vanished into the desert alive and well. Consdiering how good the Romans were at crucifixion and how much of a rabble rouser Jesus was the the Jewish religious leaders and local politicians, I don’t think he snuck off the cross folks.

And so we’re left with a guy who have an indelible mark on the world, his message spreading against all odds in an age without high speed communication or printing presses. And yet at the same time, enough loose ends and ambiguous stuff that naysayers can make a good case too that its all a fairy tale.

To me this speaks of God moving definitively and giving us signs but also staying out of sight enough that we still have free will. We still have choice. And we still have to look around for the truth. Not everyone finds the truth of Jesus. But I believe it is there to see even if we look critically and think deeply.


23 Responses to “Savior Synchronicity by Miz Pink”


  1. January 6, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Interestingly enough, one of the big knocks on your Jesus guy is that there isnt really a lot of “Historical” evidence out there. Other than the religious stuff, there is very little verification from other sources. And as far as how Christianity spread so far and wide, maybe you should read a little more on Constantine, without him and Rome nobody would have heard very much about Jesus.

  2. 2 Inda Pink
    January 6, 2010 at 11:17 am

    That “lack” of historical evidence is because people in your camp won’t count the gospels and the epistles. No matter how many times folks point out the huge number of copies in multiple languages that agree and are showing that the gospel writings and letters have remained very stable through the centuries they don’t get to be historical documents in YOUR eyes. Yet waaaaayy older scraps of papyrus, rock, wood or whatever on nonreligious stuff that don’t have backup are gold for archeologists and historians. Double standard. Fact is Jesus is mentioned historically by Jewish priesthood/leadership and other historians. He may not be noted extensively but he is noted my multiple historical sources in additoin to the epistles and gospels which should be considered historical record as well. You just want to apply different rules because of our claim that Jesus is divine. So suddenly HIS historical records have to be held to a higher standard.

    And don’t get me started on Constantine. Criminey! The guy made Christianity into an organization. he didn’t save the religion or make it take off. It existed and survived persecution and spread far and wide long before he got his grubby mitts in the mix. If anything Constantine was one of the WORST things to happen to Christianity as far as I’m concerned.

  3. January 6, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    Lol. The council of Nicea is what determined what kind of bible you read right now. I would say Constantine may have helped ya out a little more than you think. ;)

    The Nicene Creed of 325 explicitly affirms the divinity of Jesus, applying to him the term “God”.

    Wikipedia really is pretty good.

  4. 4 Inda Pink
    January 6, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    Well sure I’ll give ole Constie and the Council mad props for organizational ability. They project managed the hell out of things. There may be a lot of advantages to me in the modern day b/c of that. But it also ushered in a total institutionalization that mucked up thing for centuries and still does. IMHO the early Christian church structure seemed a lot more in line with Jesus’ vibe than all the stuff that started happening a few hundred years after Jesus headed upstairs. Constie and gang helped usher in that term that Deke (and others) sometimes drops (Churchianity) instead of Christianity.

  5. January 8, 2010 at 6:59 am

    Ah Pink, the odds are though, if it wasnt for ole Consti you wouldnt be worshipping a dead guy come alive from a cross. :)

  6. 6 Inda Pink
    January 8, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Uh….yeah

    Because Paul’s rather extensive and succesful missionary work took place under Constie right?

    Ooops. no.

    Because the earliest versions of the gospels were written, copies and disseminated thanks to Constie…

    No? Oh you mean those were first being written with a generation or two after Jesus’s death which is something almost unheard of with so many equal or more popular historical figures before him? yeah

    Because Christianity just stayed in one little area as a cult instead of spreading like wildfire in a time and environment and atmospehre where it was downright dangerous to practice it and there was no earthly payoff.

    No it didn’t do that either under Constie?

    Oh and I guess Christians didn’t hold to their faith even when being thrown to the lions until after Constie…

    Get me drift bucko?

    Constantine was in power 300 years after Jesus.

    300 years.

    Christianity was motoring along pretty well without him and spreading far and wide in an age with no radio and no Tv and no interwebs dude.

    Thanking Constie for Christianity’s survival is as big a red herring as saying Christians are responsible for most of histories atrocities.

  7. January 8, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Christians are responsible for most of histories atrocities.(Pinkie)

    Seeing as the majority of the world’s faith based people are christian, you would be correct with this statement. Cult is not the proper term for Christianity or any religion for that matter.

    BIG FREAKING CULT would be a more apt description. :)

  8. January 8, 2010 at 10:39 am

    By the way, you may like to watch a movie called Constantines Sword. It is pretty informative and entertaining. It is a pretty recent movie 07 or 08.

  9. 9 Inda Pink
    January 8, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Whoa whoa whoa

    Back up now on two things.

    One the religion cannot be blamed for the atrocities when the atrocities were almost always done with something other than religion as the driving force like conquest, power, money, sex etc. The religion of the villains is pretty irrelevant when the villain would have done the same thing anyway and it he/she used religion as an excuse could have used a diff religion as excuse just as easily.

    two what do you mean the majority of the worlds faith based people are Christian? in what Opposite World do you live in? You can’t spout off an obvious inaccuracy like that and walk away.

    At its highest the world has never been more than one-third Christian and most “Chrsitians” don’t even practice their religion really. And many of those Christians aren’t even in a position to persecute other nations or populations (poor nations in central America anyone?). Now you’re just throwing random crap out there that isn’t even true.

  10. 10 Deacon Blue
    January 8, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Since I’m on vacation, I’m going to leave the brawling to the two of you (Miz Pink isn’t above sucker punching, Tit for Tat, so keep yourself covered in the ring). But I will say that while I think more highly of Constantine and the Council of Nicea than Miz Pink does, I largely agree with her points.

    My belief is that as wrongheaded as many of the emperor’s and council’s aims might have been, they were nudged along spiritually to get the right stuff pulled together, since what they did put together wasn’t exactly a great recipe for making the big-C “Church” look infallible and it exposed a lot of the warts of early Christians. And they didn’t take the opportunity to alter texts, which they could have easily done (and would never had thought they would be caught since the general populace couldn’t read anyway and they controlled the archives). Were they solely trying to be self-serving and power-grabbing, that would have been the time to write up the religion in a way that would have made them untouchable and every early church leader infallible and right-acting. They didn’t. It was a flawed and honest view of things, and so I believe it was Spirit-led and ultimately to the benefit of the faith in general.

    But the rampant institutionalization later, especially with the Vatican and Catholicism, was really freaking unfortunate as an offshoot.

    That’s all I have to say. Back to “not blogging”

  11. January 8, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Pinkie

    I figured you needed someone to talk with. :)

    Go check the stats, Christianity as a whole is the largest religion in the world. So it makes sense that it would have the largest level of violence associated with it. Afterall, arent all we humans sinful. There are just more of you guys out there.

    You can talk all you want about power, politics, money and such, but presently the biggest factor(professed) behind the majority of violence in the world is……….Wait for it………….RELIGION.

  12. 12 Inda Pink
    January 8, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    You can talk all you want about power, politics, money and such, but presently the biggest factor(professed) behind the majority of violence in the world is……….Wait for it………….RELIGION.

    Professed is the key word. People hind behind religiosity dude. Do you think its really about religion in Iran or Iraq for example. Its about control and territory and crap like that. Religion is merely a tool for control in those cases or an excuse to fight someone you don’t like.

    A lot of terrorism might be driven by religion but even there it boils down to control issues. These are men who see their religion threatened and their control and autonomy threatened just like neonazis and crap. People see their way slipping away and they panic. But religion is just an excuse. People truly practicing a religion dont have time for violence and oppression. If they have time for that they aren’t practicing their religion as written.

    So if Christians do violence Christianity is to blame. Really? Because I kinda thought most Christian folk waging wars and doing crimes and such don’t have religion on the mind when they do it.

    Plenty of asshole and violent atheists too so what do you blame there dude. Your default is to blame religions instead of people and not to dig deep for real motivations. if you were a doctor you’d be the guy looking at symptoms and treating them instead of the disease that causes them

  13. 13 Inda Pink
    January 8, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Ya know whats really funny T4T?

    Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

    The third or fourth largest group in the world: nonreligious

    Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. What’s your excuse for your actions?

  14. January 8, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    What’s your excuse for your actions?(Pink)

    Im just a regular, middle of the road violent guy. Not one who is part of the God ordained chosen group. Puff, Puff. ;)

  15. 15 Inda Pink
    January 8, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    And most people who practice religions are just regular middle of the road people…violent or not. So can we finally agree that religion isn’t the problem since increased secularism (and non practicing believers who might as well be considered not religious) hasn’t made the world any safer or kinder really. we still judge and criticize and oppress and abuse and fight and the 1.1 billion non religious folks are pretty much just as bad on average as the religious folks on average.

  16. January 8, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Ummmmmm, not sure I can agree completely. Plus if you want to look at a comparison of violence and religion, look at Denmark. It doesnt have near the same level of most “religious” communities. It is a secular state. In fact most of the violence issues they have are directly related to followers of Islam. Not surprising, afterall its current rendition is awfully similar to that of Christianity several centuries ago.

  17. 17 Inda Pink
    January 8, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    And look at the U.S. which is for all intents and purposes a secular nation with most of the violence and hatefulness committed with NO religion behind it. Just normal human cruelty and greed and carelessness for the right of other folks. Don’t tell me the U.S. is Christian either. It isn’t. I live here. I know what it is. It’s an overwhelmingly secular nation. Politicans pandering to religious groups for key votes doesn’t make it a religious nation. Because most of the hateful things happen in absence of religious reasons. Deke lives in the least religious part of the entire nation. Least religious. And voters out there in Maine still cancelled out the gay marriage laws the the government had made last year to let them marry. Were religious folks a part of that? Sure. But only a PART. In a region of the U.S. where religious stuff is valued LESS than ANYWHERE else in the country shallow hatred and bigotry still win out. Know why? Because “family values” pandering isn’t about religion. Its about our comfortable little traditions and the boxes we live in the way we single other groups out. Just like violence isn’t about religion but about control and sometimes liking to hurt people.

    If you got the secular non religious world you want it would still be a place filled with cruelty and pain. I gaurantee it. If it was any better the difference would be marginal at best and the world wouldn’t be the better for having no spiritual traditions.

  18. 18 thewordofme
    January 11, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Isn’t the US considered the most religious (Christian) country in the world? Or is it just the most fundamental/evangelical (fundagelical)?

  19. 19 Inda Pink
    January 12, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    So you mean its the most Christian nation on Earth. Maybe or maybe not. I don’t know how you rate something like that. We’re a pretty diverse nation in terms of nationalities and ethnic groups and religions so it’s a big mix and its not like very much legislation or policy overall gets dictated by Christians. Its not like Christians get preference much compared to other groups (certain not anytning like White vs. Black or rich vs. poor difference). It’s not like very many peeps actually practice Chrsitiantiy. They may SAY they are Christian but how many ever read a Bible or go to church regularly or pray.

    Kinda like folks who self report the size of their penis or the number of times we have sex in a week. People tend to inflate such things. So if you’re going on self reported Christianity that doesn’t seem like a very accurate mark. sheer numbers don’t make a place religious. It’s about the actions and the populace being in line with that religion and I just dont see that.

  20. 20 thewordofme
    January 13, 2010 at 12:49 am

    Well it is said that atheism/agnosticism is the fastest growing “religion” now. I used to live in a very religious state (Texas) and the “Christianity swirled around me like smog…I was exceedingly bothered by it…it almost felt dangerous.

    It is reported-and said to be true-that good ol’ G.W. consulted with GOD before making decisions that involved the lives of our young men and women, and of course his daddy pretty much said that atheists should be shot or run out of town on a rail. Obama is Christian (or was that Muslim…like the rednecks say) and he picks Rick Warren (he of the kill homosexuals persuasion) to swear him in…I think the Christians are solidly in control.

    Peace
    twom

  21. 21 Inda Pink
    January 13, 2010 at 11:10 am

    But isn’t saying that “Christians are solidly in control” a little like the complaints of fundies and racists and whatnot who say “Jews control the banks” or “Liberals control the media” or “Godless heathens are the ones teaching our kids in college mostly.” ????

    Even if a certain group is greater in number or if there’s a perception that they are…because maybe theyre just more obvious or more vocal…that doesnt’ mean their beliefs set the tone for everyone else.

    If it did, thewordofme then abortions would be illegal and prayer would be allowed in schools and we wouldn’t have debates about whether the ten commandements are okay to be in a public place on civic property.

    Georgie Porjie Bushy Boy didn’t consult God. He might have prayed not to eff up. Or he might have prayed to God asking for guidance but already having his intentions firmly in place and praying around them. But he didn’t consult God. No one who consults God or the Bible with an open heart and any real knowing of Jesus could do the heinous things he did.

    No sir, this is a secular nation through and through although it has pockets of Christian fundie-ism. But the nation itself is secular and gettin’ more that way every day.

  22. 22 thewordofme
    January 13, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Hi Miz Pink,been a privilege talking to you…one last parting shot. :-)

    You write:
    “No sir, this is a secular nation through and through although it has pockets of Christian fundie-ism. But the nation itself is secular and gettin’ more that way every day.”

    Yes. it is getting more secular everyday as witnessed by the latest Pew Poll…we’re all the way up to 17% of the population. :-( Fundagelicals control the Air-force academy, are trying for West Point, although some say they control the battlefield already…atheists soldiers are hit upon and occasionally fear for their life as the “Christians” gang up on them.

    You probably could do some research on bush’s White-house and the religious fervor that infused it during his time. Obama has not done much to clamp down on the fundagelicals in government and military service so-far. Bill Moyer has said that the Republican party is run by the religious right, and if you listen to some of their speach.

    The religious right is behind the nixing of gay marriage in the states that have tried to legislate the right and lost. Many states have turned down gay marriage laws already, and you can bet it is the religious people who are behind this. Look back over legislation to ban mixed marriages (B&W) and you will see the religious folk kicking ass on those people who were for it. People of tightly held religious beliefs are always behind on social views and change. Our history here in the states is full of examples of religious bigotry and social ostracism of those who don’t toe the line.

    So yes the religious folk of this country still rule, but us poor atheists and agnostics are growing (all the way up to 17% now remember) The Christians are just worried because they ARE loosing ground, but not to worry you’re still way ahead and in control in most things.

    By the way I do not think that gays should be allowed real marriage…civil partnership, or whatever its called, sounds fine to me.

  23. 23 Inda Pink
    January 14, 2010 at 10:15 am

    We readin’ the same Pew pill? Or are you misreading it? People BEING Christian doesn’t mean that they go to church or even let religious beliefs guide their lives whether positive or negative:

    See here:

    http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=504

    Whole lot of people acting secular even if maybe they identify as technically being Christian. Religion just isn’t important to their lives.

    and here:
    http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=490

    Where we see that people are mixing and matching spiritual traditions not following Christianity.

    Sorry but you’re just wrong. This is s VERY secular nation. You can pick out specific battles where Christian fundies or whatnot have scored nasty little victories but they are not IN CONTROL in the way you are claiming. Secular folks are not being stomped on by religious powers. Americans just don’t care about religion really when you get down to it. Overall that is


Comments are currently closed.

Deacon Blue is the blogging persona of editor and writer Jeffrey Bouley. The opinions of Jeff himself on this blog, and those expressed as Deacon Blue, in NO WAY should be construed as the opinions of anyone with whom he has worked, currently works, or will work with in the future. They are personal opinions and views, and are sometimes, frankly, expressed in more outrageous terms than I truly feel most days.

Jeff Bouley

_________

Jeff Bouley

To find out more about me professionally, click here. To find out more about me generally, click here.

_________

E-Mail

You can reach Deacon Blue/Jeff Bouley at deaconbluemail@gmail.com.

_________

LinkedIn

For my public profile, click here.

_________

Tales of the Whethermen

My superhero fiction blog, click here

_________

Raising the Goddess

My parenting blog, click here

Copyright Info and Images

For more about images used on this site, and copyrights regarding them, as well as usage/copyright information about my own writing as posted here, click here.

Deac Tweets

  • RT @blackgirlinmain: April snow is like a lover that you let go of but who comes back for one last roll in the hay. Fleeting and meaningles… 1 hour ago
  • Author is my college roomie & friend & great writer: HENCH 2012 EDITION by Adam Beechen, Manny Bello, Ethen Beavers kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/a… 11 hours ago
  • @magpiecreative Yup. Adrenaline & anxiety have eased up now that day's tasks are over. ;-) Chilling now. Taking myself to lunch tomorrow 11 hours ago
  • I changed my Gmail password because of Heartbleed. Now my email app on iPhone won't recognize the new password as valid. WTF? 12 hours ago
  • @magpiecreative Elysium, Ender's Game, Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug & 12 Years a Slave. With that lineup, guess Hobbit qualifies as light 15 hours ago

Archives

Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Join 835 other followers

January 2010
M T W T F S S
« Dec   Feb »
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 835 other followers

%d bloggers like this: