03
Jun
09

God Don’t Like Psycho

OK, I realize I’m late to the party on the murder of Dr. George Tiller, a controversial provider of late-term abortions, allegedly by 51-year-old fundamentalist Christian Scott Roeder.

Partly, I’m just distracted. But a smaller story out my way sparked me to write about this. You see, there is, in my neck of the wood…or, rather, was…a topless coffee shop. The owner was making plans to expand, and then suddenly an arsonist burned the place down. I know nothing about the arsonist. I don’t even know if they have a suspect in custody. But as my wife said, “I guess the crazy fundamental Christians are coming out of the woodwork.”

Perhaps they are. Let’s sample a couple quotes about the murder of Dr. Tiller…

Prayer and Action newsletter publisher and anti-abortion activist Dave Leach: “To call this a crime is too simplistic. There is Christian scripture that would support this.”

Founder of Operation Rescue Randall Terry: “(He) was a mass murderer and, horrifically, he reaped what he sowed.”

My late and much-missed grandmother-in-law often said, “God don’t like ugly.”

I’ll ammend that a bit: God don’t like psycho.

We do not get to choose to burn down someone’s business or kill someone because of the Bible. We just don’t. For one thing, it wasn’t the kind of thing that Jesus condoned. But also, we are told in the Bible to follow the laws of our lands. The laws of our land, here in the United States, says that an unborn child is not always considered a full life. But a grown-ass man is definitely alive, and killing him over ideology is murder, plain and simple.

I defy any fundie who supports or turns a blind eye to this murder to show me a single passage of scripture that defines an unborn child as a life and thus establishes that ending the existence of that fetus is murder. The first person that does will most likely pick a single passage, and I’ve seen it before, and I will likely rip your argument to shreds if you do.

Furthermore, without establishing that a fetus is a viable life in the Bible, all we have to go on is the law of the land, which says it is not. And frankly, even you can prove to me that the Bible protects a fetus’ life as much as a child outside the womb or an adult, that still doesn’t give you the right to flout the laws of your land and take vengeance. Vengeance belongs to God. It’s one thing to snap and kill someone because they hurt or killed someone close to you…people snap over such things…that’s not generally cold-blooded murder. Killing someone for something that doesn’t impact you directly is cold-blooded murder.

And finally, Dr. Tiller didn’t perform late-term abortions for mothers who just decided late in the game they didn’t want to be pregnant. Late-term abortions are almost always in the interest of preserving the mother’s life or in cases where the fetus is so unviable that it faces death upon entering the world anyway.

All around, this act was wrong. And no Christian should overtly or covertly support this murder of man. Much less murdering him in front of his family while in church. There’s nothing right with that picture.

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38 Responses to “God Don’t Like Psycho”


  1. 1 David
    June 3, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    While I agree with you that the murder of this man is wrong, but some of what you say is not true.

    We are never required to follow laws of the land that are inherently evil. So if a euthanasia law saying that anyone over the age of 75 is ready to be killed, I do not have to follow that law. By nature, Christians throughout history have harbored oppressed people against the law of the country. Also, doctors in medical school are taught that human life begins at conception. Whether law agrees or not. Catholics don’t believe that the Bible is the only scripture, and there are plenty of places in Catholic teaching showing when life begins. Also, it was not determinable with medical instrumentation of the time, so what is stated in the Bible is not authoritative. The Bible does not deal with science, at any rate. I won’t even get into the late term abortion. It’s not our place to decide to destroy something God created. It is one thing to try and save both mother and child and in the process the baby dies. But to just kill the baby is indiscriminate.

    At any rate, the issue of Dr. Tiller-it was wrong and unjustifiable to kill the man.

  2. 2 Deacon Blue
    June 3, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    David, we may not be required to FOLLOW laws that are directly in conflict with our faith…BUT, we can only refuse to follow them and pay the consequences. We CANNOT commit another sin and ignore another law of the land to wreak vengeance.

    That’s really what I was getting at.

    The process of forming a human life begins at conception. I know of no medical school that teaches that an embryo or fetus is a viable human being and complete life.

  3. June 3, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Preach!
    Can you imagine killing someone in church, while they were worshipping the same God in Whose name you were murdering? Unbelieveable.

  4. 4 Black Diaspora
    June 3, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    He who wrote with His finger, “Thou shalt not kill,” upon a stone table, is not going to suddenly condone it to appease those who believe that a “baby killer” deserves death.

    If God wanted Tiller dead, he would have killed him, Himself, after the first of his estimated 60,000 abortions.

    Hell, Tiller wouldn’t have been born in the first place!

    And the same can be said of Hitler: How many of God’s chosen people died at his hands?

    If Tiller killed his 60,000 he didn’t do it alone. We don’t have just one murderer here, we have 60,000 plus one.

    Where’s the outcry to prosecute them, using the same kangaroo court.

    Our understanding of God, or lack thereof, is egregious. We attribute to Him all our failings, our good and bad conduct, and use Him to justify acts against humanity that would make the devil blush.

    Like the terrorists that we condemn as religious zealots, anti-abortionists take their marching orders from an impotent God that they believe have enlisted them to do His Dirty Work, since He’s unwilling or unable to do it Himself.

    No such God exists. God’s Works are Good only.

    God doesn’t need man for anything. A God with a “need” is no God at all, but a supplicant.

    And since God is either dead or too helpless to stop that which He commanded us not to do–to kill–some on the right, Bill O’Reilly in particular, for his continual verbal assaults against Tiller, filled the void, possibly inciting others to do what he was too cowardly to do himself, believing, perhaps, that God spoke through Him.

    Well, God didn’t….

    Those that killed Tiller breathed life into the act, and the numbers are greater than one.

    Those that created the climate that justified the act are guilty as coconspirators, but they’ll only be tried in the court of public opinion, and their punishment will not match the severity of their crime.

    In some circles they’ll be applauded right along with Scott Roeder as one of God’s Heroes, one of God’s Warriors–a dubious honor and distinction.

    God need no Heroes, and certainly no Warriors.

    That would make Him impotent, as though He needed someone to do for Him what He’s incapable of doing for Himself.

    No such God exists.

    Since men do not risk health nor life to carry a fetus to term, we shouldn’t have a say in the abortion debate–certainly not a say in the right or wrong of it.

    As I see it, only women should have the ultimate say–although I, as a man, would prefer to have every fetus brought to term when and where possible, and health, and life-and-death issues aren’t impediments.

    And those that would circumvent the “rule of law” and our constitution to do the supposed bidding of God, by killing a “baby killer,” as they see it, are neither God fearing nor law-abiding.

  5. 5 Deacon Blue
    June 3, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    And an “amen!” to Black Diaspora. Maybe if I hadn’t had to rush to get this post up, I could have managed to put such passion in my words.
    🙂

    ———————–

    And kellybelle…no, I really can’t imagine that. And thank God for the fact I can’t. It boggles my mind, and my faith…

  6. June 3, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    What BD said!

    You know, y’all covered it. I have nothing more to add, that would not be redundant.

  7. 7 blackgirlinmaine
    June 4, 2009 at 9:22 am

    Excellent commemt Black Diaspora. Good post too Deacon. Sad state of affairs, especially when done in the name of God. I suspect God does not want his name used in such madness, yet the trigger man will have to account for his actions and I suspect on judgement day the Big Guy will be none to pleased with him. Killing a man in God’s house is just a bad idea. Heck killing a man in general is a bad idea.

  8. 8 Deacon Blue
    June 4, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Thanks, Seda and BGIM…this really is a sad state of affairs. Bad enough when Christians show their asses by being jerks or hypocrites or arrogant in general…which never helps advance the gospel…but then to start killing folks or trying to downplay one of their own committing murder like this in violation of the laws of man AND God…well, it’s just disheartening.

  9. 9 David
    June 4, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    Deacon, respectfully, “The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology: “Zygote: this cell results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo). Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

    Moore, K. and T.V.N. Persaud. 1998. The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (6th ed.), W.B. Saunders Company, Philadelphia, pp 2-18.

    This does not mean that it could survive on it’s own (viability). And I agree, to disobey secular law for religious reasons may bring the wrath of the state, and we have to accept those consequences.

    I’d like to point out, as I have on my blog, that Dr. Tiller’s killer was not affiliated with any mainstream pro-life group. He acted on his own. I think it’s shameful that some people would say that Dr. Tiller got what he deserved. He’ll get that when he meets his maker, which has already happened, now.

    BD, if I may call you that, you make many good points until you talk about men shouldn’t have a say in an abortion. In fact, because the woman is the one risking her health to carry the child, the man is required to be more protective of the woman and his baby. It is a sin to participate in the sin of another in any way. By shutting up and not having your own say, you are a de facto accomplice in her action. If you at least tell her that you think it’s wrong, and she does it anyway, that’s different.

    Lastly, if the abortion debate were strictly about health issues, much of this debate would be done with. Sure, there’s some who are always against abortion, in fact I’m one, but we need to understand when having a baby would kill the mother. What we’re mostly talking about is abortion for sake of convenience-the inconvenience to the mother. There are other means to avoiding having a baby-abstinance and contraception.

    At any rate, the point was that Dr. Tiller’s murder was murder. And wrong. And it is wrong to judge that it’s good riddance, too. Those people are playing God by judging Dr. Tiller. That’s God’s job, and has already been done.

  10. 10 Deacon Blue
    June 4, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    David, the definition of when life equals humanity and not just a collection of cells will never be adequately answered, and will always be a topic for debate. Neither the Bible nor science gives a clear view.

    Pointing to your own excerpt of the scientific text above, it is “the beginning of a new human being.” This does not say that it IS a human being. “The beginning of each of us as a unique individual” also doesn’t not define the embryo as a human being. There is a unique collection of genetic material. Yes, there is life there, but is it yet humanity? I don’t have an answer to that.

    I personally don’t like the idea of abortion all that much, but I also don’t demonize it, precisely because there is too much gray area here.

    A seed is the beginning of a unique flower. But it isn’t a flower. Nowhere close. Is it life? Yes, in one sense. But a tumor is also a life. I’m not equating embyros with being equivalent to tumors, but the truth is that “life” is a thing that comes in many forms and many stages.

    When does humanity begin? Is it really when sperm and ovum unite? Or is it later?

    We just don’t know. Science doesn’t give us a clear answers and the Bible gives us even less clear answers on the matter.

  11. 11 David
    June 4, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    Deacon, be real. If it is the beginning of a human being it can be nothing else but a human being. The reason you think it may never be answered is because you choose to leave God out of the equation. Maybe you missed this part: “to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

    As far as I’m concerned, women need to know what all their options are. When they go inside Planned Parenthood, they aren’t told about other options. And once you have an abortion, it’s something you will live with for the rest of your life. The emphasis these days is on abortion because too many people understand what they are really doing. Educate them. Show them how to prevent a pregnancy, whether by abstinance or by contraception (though to me that’s wrong too), or by showing them why sex is sacred and meant for marriage only.

    Faith is an ideal, for sure. The 10 commandments are impossible to live truly without God’s help. If you don’t have God in your life, you will not be able to keep them all (keep in mind that “You shall not steal” doesn’t just mean taking money from your employer…). We are all sinners, since Eve. We can be no better than being sinners. Faith and religion are what we should strive to be. We can all be better than what we are, no matter how good we think we are.

  12. June 4, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    I had to post about this too. Same basic thoughts as you. I don’t understand people saying that this was something God wanted. I just don’t.

  13. 13 Black Diaspora
    June 4, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    @David: “…you make many good points until you talk about men shouldn’t have a say in an abortion.”

    You can have your say. It just shouldn’t count.

  14. 14 Deacon Blue
    June 4, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    David,

    If I didn’t put God into the equation, I wouldn’t be conflicted about it, probably…now would I?

    Go back to my example…a seed is the beginning of a flower. But it is NOT a flower. That seed is as unique as a fertilized ovum, compared to some other seed of the same kind of flower, is it not? But do you call it a seed, or a flower?

    Cells are alive, there is no doubt. A fertilized ovum forms the foundation for building a human being. But it is NOT so clear-cut as you like to maintain that it IS a human being at that point. Is it truly a separate individual, or an extension of the woman. Is there a soul in that collection of cells, or does the soul arrive when there is the beginning of cognition? You cannot answer these questions any more solidly than I can, and putting God into the equation still doesn’t establish at what point it is merely a collection of cells, and at which point it is human. It’s pretty easy for most of us to agree that when the fetus is viable and can survive outside the womb (at least theoretically) it is a fully realized human being. But before that, and the closer you get to the point of initial conception, things get grayer and grayer.

    I also take exception to your Planned Parenthood comment, for a number of reasons. People solidly and firmly against abortion like to paint PP as an abortion factory. PP gives out prophylatics, they provide women’s health services like pap smears, etc. It is not about abortion; that is simply one aspect of it. I’ve been in Planned Parenthood clinics before, most often waiting for my wife to finish getting a pap smear…but I’ve also at an earlier point been in one with a woman who was getting an abortion. The Planned Parenthood folks do in fact provide advice and options and cautions when it comes to abortion. Not every clinic is the same, and I’m sure some staffers in some places are more diligen than others, but for you to paint Planned Parenthood with the broad brush you just did is a comment rife with ignorance about what PP is.

  15. 15 David
    June 5, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Deacon, the difference between a seed and a zygote is that the zygote has a soul.

    Planned Parenthood as an organization leaves much to be desired. There have been girls posing as 13 years old claiming to have been sexually assaulted by a 30 year old man, and asking for advice. The Planned Parenthood personnel by and large agreed to cover up the crimes. Not once, but about 800 times. Also, in other cases, they are perfectly ok with promoting race base abortion targeting inner city blacks. The founder of PP was an avowed racist who stated that one of her purposes was to limit black people in America.

    I don’t know if the good they do outweighs the bad. And I don’t believe that the frequency of abortion in America represents what’s really necessary for medical reasons. The vast majority of abortions in this country are a result of sexual promiscuity, some of which results from failed contraceptives. What it shows is that women, for all the advances they’ve made in the last 50 years, have done very little to raise their status as a gender much above where it was before. They are objectified, rather than personified. Witness the pornography industry, which now encompasses much of main stream television and advertising, as well as print media.

  16. 16 Deacon Blue
    June 5, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    The healthcare industry in general (physicians, hospitals, etc.) treats non-whites differently in terms of attitude, approach and care…typically with lesser-quality care being the result…that’s been statistically shown. So, your example about inner-city blacks doesn’t speak to PP specifically but more to societal prejudices, many of them unconscious and subtle.

    You talk of PP offering to “cover up the crimes.” I don’t know about the situation here that you describe, but I have to wonder if things are being skewed here. Did they post as 13-year-olds and say, “I don’t want anyone to know about this” or what? There are issues of reporting crimes and requirements to do so, and there are also issues of privacy and confidentiality. Without more information, I cannot comment, but I still maintain that PP is a necessary entity, as many women would not get basic women’s healthcare without its existence.

    As for a zygote having a soul, that may or may not be the case. But please don’t give me doctrine handed down from men…please provide me with scripture that supports that. Otherwise, I cannot take that assertion seriously.

  17. 17 David
    June 5, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    If you are disallowing “doctring handed down from men”, you’re missing 2/3 of the word of God. Try to remember that the Catholic Church came before the Bible, defined the Bible, and the apostles and their successors taught us what Jesus meant by what he said. For 1500 years before there was any major disagreement.

    I am not discounting that part of PP which is legitimate by today’s standard (though I do question today’s standard) regarding general health and services.

    There is no denying the racism of Margaret Sanger, the founder of PP.

    Throughout the 200+ pages of Sanger
    called for the elimination of human weeds: “for the cessation of
    charity, for the segregation of morons, misfits, and maladjusted,”
    and for the sterilization of “genetically inferior races.” In this
    same book she argued that organized attempts to help the poor were
    the “surest sign that our civilization has bred, is breeding, and is
    perpetuating . . . defectives, delinquents, and dependents.

    “Margaret Sanger is responsible, more than anyone else, for keeping
    alive international racism. She played the attractive hostess for
    racist thinkers all over the world. Organizing the First World
    Population Conference in Geneva in 1926, she invited Clarence C.
    Little, Edward A. East, Henry Pratt Fairchild, and Raymond
    Pearl–all infamous racists.”

    Margaret Sanger and former Planned Parenthood President Alan
    Guttmacher were both listed in 1956 as members of the American
    Eugenics Society, Inc.

  18. 18 LightWorker
    June 5, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    “Deacon, the difference between a seed and a zygote is that the zygote has a soul.” David

    You’re sure about that? You’re absolutely, 100% sure of that?

    You speak with an authority. I’d like to know the source of that authority.

  19. 19 Deacon Blue
    June 5, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    David,

    I’m not disallowing the doctrine of men…just as I don’t disallow the laws, decisions and mores of secular governments.

    And as far as the “doctrine of men” in the Word of God (aka the Bible), much of that came from apostles…about as close to the source (Jesus) as you can get…and presumably written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. As such, I don’t disregard the epistles or anything else.

    I asked for a scriptural basis that a fetus is soul-bearing human being (much less a zygote being a soul-bearing human being). By your silence on that front, I assume you have nothing to substantiate your position from the Word of God itself.

    As for your comments on PP, I don’t dispute them, nor would I defend the founders. But it wouldn’t be the first organization to move far beyond the intentions of the founders (for good or bad) as it evolved. After all, there have been any number of Christian organizations that have essentially become secular institutions and/or have gone completely astray from Christian precepts.

  20. June 5, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    There is no denying the racism of Thomas Jefferson, founder of our nation and author of those immortal words, “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.” He held many black people in bondage, and the only slaves he ever freed were his mistress and his children.

    In 1926, the Ku Klux Klan was mainstream. There were millions of members, all over the country. It was one of the most powerful and popular organization of that time.

    Sometimes, context is good. Even when quoting scripture.

  21. June 6, 2009 at 1:57 am

    sometimes the law is wrong and it is man’s obligation to change it. consider desegregation, abolition, enfranchisement.
    as for abortion-the more i know about zygote/embryo/fetal development, the more disturbed i am. when is something no longer a thing? when is it a being?
    scientific advances make it harder to draw the line.
    my personal position: extreme pro-choice. there is no contraceptive that is 100% except sterilization and i cannot imagine anyone under 35 making THAT choice. until there is quickening [when’s the last time you heard that word used?] there is no life. if any of my girls got pregnant, i’d insist they think long and hard about their options and walk the cladogram with me.
    and yet…
    i used to do tax returns for a local pro-life group. gratis. they placed ads in the college papers, offering pregnant women medical care, clothes, baby supplies, infant care, counseling. they weren’t anti-abortion, not like the nutjobs. they wanted to make it as easy as possible to preserve the life of the woman AND the fetus. what impressed me was that they did not abandon their clients after the baby was born.
    i sometimes wonder if the 3 miscarriages i had were payback for my abortions, but that way madness lies.

  22. June 6, 2009 at 11:07 am

    My personal stand on it is also extreme pro-choice, and the reason is that I think abortions should be as nearly eliminated as possible. That may sound counter-intuitive, but the fact is that countries such as Sweden, with inclusive sex education, available contraceptives, and state-funded abortions have the lowest rates of abortions in the world, while countries such as Columbia, where abortions and contraceptives are outlawed, have the highest rates. The US is in the middle, both in support and availability of abortions and number of them. I’ve heard it said that insanity is doing the same thing again and again, expecting a different result.

  23. 23 thewordofme
    June 6, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    All I could add to your post here is “Amen”
    Good writing

  24. 24 Deacon Blue
    June 6, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    robyn…I wish more pro-life groups and individuals would take a stance like that, to help and to guide and to give real options, instead of simply condemning. Sounds like a great group that you were doing work for, there.

    Seda…interesting info you’ve shared there. Thanks. You know, we’re really messed up in the head in this country in so many ways. Like the way we think we’re so sexually liberated here, and yet we’re one of the more sexually repressed and sexually dysfunctional developed nations around.

    TWOM..thanks.

  25. 25 Deacon Blue
    June 7, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    Thordaddy…

    Don’t know why you even bother to keep reading here…because I was serious that I don’t read your stuff. You post, I delete. Without hesitation. You could have a great point and I still wouldn’t post it, because I don’t read your crap.

    Mostly because you have about a 5% success rate for posting intelligent arguments in the past.

  26. June 8, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Mostly because you have about a 5% success rate for posting intelligent arguments in the past.(Deacon)

    Thank G-d I hit the 7% percent mark. lol. 😉

  27. 27 Deacon Blue
    June 8, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    LOL, TitforTat…

    Yeah, I don’t mind people who disagree with me. Even if I think they are “wrong,” I appreciate that they at least think.

    Some folks, though, just haul out the same arguments, over and over. Rinse, lather, repeat. Discussion or real debate is beyond them. They simply pummel folks with the one or two moves they’ve grown comfortable with and never try to learn anything new.

  28. 28 David
    June 8, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    Deacon,

    As the early Christian writer Tertullian pointed out, the law of Moses ordered strict penalties for causing an abortion. We read, “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [Hebrew: “so that her child comes out”], but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Ex. 21:22–24).

    This applies the lex talionis or “law of retribution” to abortion. The lex talionis establishes the just punishment for an injury (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life, compared to the much greater retributions that had been common before, such as life for eye, life for tooth, lives of the offender’s family for one life).

    The lex talionis would already have been applied to a woman who was injured in a fight. The distinguishing point in this passage is that a pregnant woman is hurt “so that her child comes out”; the child is the focus of the lex talionis in this passage. Aborted babies must have justice, too.

    This is because they, like older children, have souls, even though marred by original sin. David tells us, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Ps. 51:5, NIV). Since sinfulness is a spiritual rather than a physical condition, David must have had a spiritual nature from the time of conception.

    The same is shown in James 2:26, which tells us that “the body without the spirit is dead”: The soul is the life-principle of the human body. Since from the time of conception the child’s body is alive (as shown by the fact it is growing), the child’s body must already have its spirit.

  29. June 8, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Thank you, David. I expected that if you responded you’d start with that first one, which I think is overused in this argument. The other two present perhaps more interesting intellectual and spiritual exercises. I can’t respond now as I’m on deadline with an article, but will get back to this later tonight.

  30. 30 Inda Pink
    June 8, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    OK, I’m back. I dislike the use of the passage from Exodus as anti-abortion scripture. There isn’t a direct correlation. I get the logical process that goes into using it, but that process ignores the other (and equally strong) argument that it speaks not to abortion but to taking away a couple’s potential child against their desires. You see, the crime that occurs in that passage is that the couple plans to have a child and does not want anything to interfere with that. The person who therefore ends the pregnancy is guilty of having transgressed the parents’ desires and rights. If the Bible was speaking to abortion, it would address parents trying to end the fetus’ life. Therefore, though it is the most commonly used passage people use to say the Bible opposes abortion, it is flimsy as all hell.

    Your passage from Psalms is an interesting choice, and does provoke consideration. However, it still is a very tangential piece of scriptural evidence. First off, “the time my mother conceived me” is an interesting turn of phrase. Ancient peoples knew that it was the man’s seed entering the woman that caused conception, so why is the focus on the mother instead of “parents conceived me instead.” I don’t know, but it does beg the question of whether this refers to actual conception or some later stage of development in the womb…some perceived “quickening” that occurs at some point in the woman’s body, far removed from and distinct from the moment of conception. I’m not saying your logic isn’t worthy of consideration, but this still leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

    I have to disregard the passage from James, though. Again, you use “alive” but a zygote is “alive” in a much different way than an embryo or early-stage fetus is alive or that a fully formed infant is alive. Many things are alive without having a spiritual nature. And because your passage from Psalms is a bit shaky, that makes the passage from James even more so, since using James in this argument rests on accepting your argument about Psalm 51.

    None of this is to say that you are wrong, but to point out that things still aren’t scripturally clear on this matter. Abortion existed long before medical science did. Yet the issue isn’t directly addressed in scripture. And, if I understand correctly, Hebrew law doesn’t forbid abortion actually, and puts the mother’s life ahead of an unborn child’s. I don’t know for certain on that, as I am not versed in Hebrew scripture, but I do recall a pretty exhaustive paper I read once related to Jews and abortion that went along those lines.

  31. June 8, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    OK, that’s weird. My post above has Miz Pink’s name instead of mine, and Miz Pink’s listing in my author thingie in the sidebar has my avatar instead of hers. This is very strange…Wordpress is obviously having some issues…

  32. June 9, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Uh oh. It’s because I’ve been hanging out on your blog. But it’s still the first time I ever knew that transgender was contagious!

    Get ready for the ride of your life. Let’s see, what will you tell Miz Blue…?

  33. 33 Deacon Blue
    June 9, 2009 at 9:42 am

    Transgender is one thing…me switching (or, egads, merging) identities with Miz Pink is quite a much bigger step. 😉

    I don’t think Mrs. Blue would want that…LOL

    I’m just waiting to see what’s next, because in the control panel, it looks like Miz Pink and I now have HER avatar. So, next, I suppose my image all over WordPress will soon be hers….This is all very confusing…

  34. June 9, 2009 at 6:38 pm

    “This is all very confusing”

    Try it in real life…

  35. June 9, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    Oh, I will most certainly pass on that, Seda. Waaaaay too attached to my equipment…literally, figuratively and emotionally…

    😉

  36. June 9, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Waaaaay too attached to my equipment…literally, figuratively and emotionally…(Deacon)

    Here, here I second that.

  37. June 10, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Oh, it doesn’t get removed (well, except for those two egg-shaped objects) – it just gets inverted into the proper configuration. And it only hurts until it stops.

    Ah, the wonders of modern surgery! A great relief from confusion. How wonderful, this age in which we live! 🙂

    hmm… TMI?

  38. 38 Deacon Blue
    June 10, 2009 at 1:24 pm

    I’m not sure what consitutes TMI at a blog where there is a swearing deacon who talks about porn and admits to a few fetishes (even if he doesn’t reveal them publicly).

    In any case, I will ammend my statement.

    I’m also kinda attached to those two egg-shaped things, however unattractive they may be when you get right down to it…and I am really fond of keeping my johnson “original side out” (I won’t be rude and say “right side out” since that would demean your own journey, which to you IS right side out… 😉 )


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Deacon Blue is the blogging persona of editor and writer Jeffrey Bouley. The opinions of Jeff himself on this blog, and those expressed as Deacon Blue, in NO WAY should be construed as the opinions of anyone with whom he has worked, currently works, or will work with in the future. They are personal opinions and views, and are sometimes, frankly, expressed in more outrageous terms than I truly feel most days.

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