08
Jul
09

Journeying Toward God

A dock at sunset on White Sands Island in the Maldives.I’m often presented with this question from people who don’t believe in a higher power, or who aren’t sure if one exists (or who it is) and people with different faith beliefs than my own:

What makes you so sure that your faith is the right one?

Now, you can substitute in there. For example, some like to ask me how I could be so arrogant. Some ask me how I could believe my way is the only way. And so on. Sometimes, it’s a honest, interested query. Sometimes, it’s a challenge being thrown at me. Sometimes, it’s just plain mean.

But, regardless, it’s a valid question and—as hard as it may be for some of you to believe—it’s a question I ponder fairly often. And, mind you, manage to ponder without necessarily having to have a crisis of faith or doubt my own belief system.

What it comes down to is that I don’t believe my path is the only path. I don’t even believe that my Bible alone tells the whole story. I don’t necessarily think that all other faiths are wrong, though I do worry that many of them are off track in some way or another, or have the wrong focus (then again, I think many Christians are off track…).

God wants us to journey toward Him. God wants us to seek spiritual understanding. I also believe that God sent Jesus to be the focal point around which we should gather. The challenge is in trying to understand how Jesus fits into things and why he is the individual God set up as the ideal and as Lord. But the fact is that there really hasn’t been anyone like Jesus in religious history. I can’t think of any individual who has been held up philosophically, socially, jesus-prayspolitically, spiritually, intellectually and divinely (all at the same time) in any comparable manner. Not Siddartha Buddha, not Mohammed, not Moses, not David…no one of whom I have knowledge. And for well over 2,000 years, mind you.

That alone should make people sit up and take notice that Jesus is someone unique and special.

I have a few follow-up thoughts on this, in terms of where Christians and non-Christians are getting things wrong, as well as areas where they aren’t necessarily wrong but have misplaced priorities, but I’ll leave that for tomorrow or the next day…

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32 Responses to “Journeying Toward God”


  1. July 8, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    YHWH is Elohim (GOD), and YASHEUA is (JESUS) of Nazareth who is Hamashia the Messiah (THE CHRIST) .
    There is only One Elohim (GOD) and one that can save , Yehshua saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    Praise YHWH for Yehshua Hamashia.

  2. July 8, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Isn’t Jesus and the Holy Spirit YHWH also? The Angel of the LORD in the old testament I believe is Jesus Pre-incarnate. And the LORD that the Hebrews tested in the wilderness is the Holy Spirit.

    Exodus 17:1 The whole Israelite community set out from the Desert of Sin, traveling from place to place as the LORD commanded. They camped at Rephidim, but there was no water for the people to drink. 2 So they quarreled with Moses and said, “Give us water to drink.”
    Moses replied, “Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you put the LORD to the test?”
    3 But the people were thirsty for water there, and they grumbled against Moses. They said, “Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to make us and our children and livestock die of thirst?”

    4 Then Moses cried out to the LORD, “What am I to do with these people? They are almost ready to stone me.”

    5 The LORD answered Moses, “Walk on ahead of the people. Take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go. 6 I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink.” So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. 7 And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested the LORD saying, “Is the LORD among us or not?”

    Hebrews 3
    7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
    “Today, if you hear his voice,
    8do not harden your hearts
    as you did in the rebellion,
    during the time of testing in the desert,
    9where your fathers tested and tried me
    and for forty years saw what I did.
    10That is why I was angry with that generation,
    and I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
    and they have not known my ways.’
    11So I declared on oath in my anger,
    ‘They shall never enter my rest.'”

  3. 3 LightWorker
    July 8, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    “The challenge is in trying to understand how Jesus fits into things and why he is the individual God set up as the ideal and as Lord.” Deacon Blue

    It is challenging to understand, but the answer is simple: God didn’t “set [Jesus] up as the ideal and as Lord,” Jesus is that “ideal,” and “Lord,” but not in a “lord it over us” sort of way.

    It’s that the “ideal” rules, the Christ (the perfect ideation and manifestation of God) rules. It is the first and the last word of that which God created–the works of God that Jesus urged his followers to believe in:

    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”

    Before Jesus’ advent into the world, we had no concept of God’s perfect manifestation–no picture or image of the Man that God created, and, thereby, nothing to emulate.

    Humankind had long lost that image of the divine perfection in manifestation (the Christ), and needed to be re-minded. The problem is that most Christians have opted to praise Jesus as God, rather than becoming a part of the Godhood which he manifested, thereby returning once again to the status of Son, rather than beggar.

    That’s the tragedy: Very few Christians have taken Jesus at his word. What good is the Path that Jesus established, if it is ignored, or deemed impractical?

  4. July 8, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    I look forward to the rest of your thoughts.

  5. 5 Deacon Blue
    July 8, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    cornishevangelist,

    Thanks for sharing. It would be nice, though, to know if you had a context or a specific point to make with that instead of simply throwing it out there in a seemingly random fashion.

    😉

    ———————–

    thegospelofjesuschrist,

    I don’t claim that people who talk about the “pre-incarnate” Jesus are wrong, but I do have my reservations and doubts about the concept. It may very well be that Jesus “always existed” but I’m not entirely convinced of that, and I believe at this time it’s still a matter of some interpretation.

    As for the “Lord” in the Exodus story being the Holy Spirit, that seems like a slim argument. In the OT, “the Lord” is generally God the Father.

    ————————

    LightWorker,

    I think I substantially agree with you on this.

    ————————

    Big Man,

    Stay tuned. 😉

  6. July 9, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Deacon Blue, well that’s what the NT says in this case. The Holy Spirit is also the LORD. The Word of the LORD and the Angel of the LORD in the OT are also called the LORD.

    Jesus also taught in John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

    and John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

    So if no one has seen the Father then who did Moses and the rest see?

    http://thegospelofjesusthechristgroup.blogspot.com/2009/06/word-of-lord-elohim-plural-god-part-1.html
    http://thegospelofjesusthechristgroup.blogspot.com/2009/06/angel-of-lord-elohim-plural-god-part-2.html
    http://thegospelofjesusthechristgroup.blogspot.com/2009/06/son-of-man-elohim-plural-god-part-3.html

    These three notes might help shed a light on the issue.

  7. 7 Deacon Blue
    July 9, 2009 at 10:25 am

    I think that seeing the Father…and SEEING the Father…are two different things.

    Mere witness vs. truly knowing and understanding anything of what God truly is.

    More importantly, Jesus said no one has seen the FATHER.

    In the Old Testament, God was Lord and master. The Hebrews were his servants, soldiers, etc. It is the way the relationship was set up. God as Father was something that began only when Jesus arrived on Earth.

  8. July 9, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    I thought that none of the Children of Israel actually saw God.
    They saw representations, but not God in his full glory, from what I understood.

  9. July 9, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    The Bible seems to suggest, though, that Moses saw God directly.

    Not sure about Elijah…but considering Elijah was taken to Heaven without having died, I think we can assume he might have seen God, too.

  10. July 9, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    LW,
    Yeah, that’s pretty much it.

  11. 11 LightWorker
    July 10, 2009 at 2:16 am

    If you believe Jesus, then any of us can see God: “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

  12. 12 LightWorker
    July 10, 2009 at 3:59 am

    When you think about it: We cannot not see God. It matters not where we look. He’s all around us!

    I see his majesty in an eagle’s flight, as it glides effortlessly upon a current of air that resides in those rarefied heights.

    I see his awesome strength in the mountains that rise to meet the soft clouds as they hover about their peaks.

    I see his generosity sprawling across a valley’s floor, extending into forever, a message of a sort in the view: “All that I have is yours.”

    I see his innocence in a baby’s smile, his joy as a twinkle in an eye, his caring in a mother’s arms as she carefully cradles the life she’s been given.

    I see his fullness, and bounty, in an orchard (any orchard), in a grove (any grove), and heavy upon the vine.

    I see his happiness in a child’s laughter, his kindness when a door is opened to allow another to pass.

    I see God daily. And, I’m willing to bet, He sees us, too.

  13. July 12, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    But the fact is that there really hasn’t been anyone like Jesus in religious history. I can’t think of any individual who has been held up philosophically, socially, politically, spiritually, intellectually and divinely (all at the same time) in any comparable manner. Not Siddartha Buddha, not Mohammed, not Moses, not David…no one of whom I have knowledge. And for well over 2,000 years, mind you.

    That alone should make people sit up and take notice that Jesus is someone unique and special.(Deacon)

    Spoken like a person who lives in the West. You do realize there are a whole bunch of people who have never even heard of Jesus? And you do realize many more world wide believe in something other than Jesus as G-d. I think you may have hit on the word earlier……..arrogant.

    Here is a question for you and Big Man for that matter. Had there not been colonialism would africans actually believe in Jesus as G-d?

  14. July 12, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    No, Tit for Tat…it is not a “Western” attitude…nor arrogant.

    For one thing, Jesus is anything BUT Western. Middle Eastern. Jewish. The fact his representations have been whitewashed doesn’t make him Western.

    And as for the arrogance, I challenge you then, to give me a spiritual figure of any significant note in history, in any part of the world, who fits all the characteristics I hightlighted…and for millennia on top of that.

    You may indeed be able to. I don’t issue this challenge as a form of arrogance, but as a genuine curiosity/intellectual challenge. Give me someone who has been:

    held up philosophically, socially, politically, spiritually, intellectually and divinely (all at the same time) in any comparable manner

    Please.

    Just give me one spiritual figure who has covered all those bases like Jesus has.

    One.

    And I’ll gladly retract my statement that this serves as a reason to give Jesus serious credence, even as a non-Christian.

    BTW, as I’ve mentioned before in other posts, I don’t think that one necessarily has to have heard of Jesus or lift him up to be given salvation from God. There are many people out there who are “born again” and don’t even have a freaking clue they are. Boy, is that arrogant of me or what? I actually believe that people can come to Christ and be saved without specifically getting baptized and declaring him Lord. Yeah, I’m so closed-minded.

    I won’t argue your colonialism argument totally…there was a certain forced evangelism there of which I don’t approve. But also realize that BEFORE colonialism, the early Christian church was spreading the Gospel WITHOUT colonialism. You know, Paul and a bunch of other folks who went a-wandering and didn’t have any armies, weapons, or anything else? So frankly, Christianity was already on its way to Africa and other places even if colonial powers hadn’t force-fed it to folks.

  15. July 13, 2009 at 7:21 am

    held up philosophically, socially, politically, spiritually, intellectually and divinely (all at the same time) in any comparable manner(Deacon)

    Oh where to start. Unfortunately because we are western and because Christianity has been force fed to our perspective for so long, answering your question is difficult. First I will start with numbers. At least 2/3 of the world does not believe in Jesus as G-d. So that takes away the divine aspect that you speak of. Now seeing as almost all other religions dont think G-d came to earth in human form(other than in myths, and those are plentiful), I cant give you a specific name. Socially, now this one is easy, like I said, more than 2/3 of the world doesnt practice Christianity so obviously their social ideas are based on something else. Politically, again this one is easy, this is why the western world has so many enemies, they dont believe in the Jesus guy that you speak of and obviously incorporate other ideas for that. Philosophically and Spiritually, Jesus is again not the one for most of the world. So, who could offer a comparison in large parts of the world, that would satisfy most of your statement? You said his name, Mohammed.

    Now lets discuss a little of how Christianity has become the force it has in the world. Way before Colonialism there was a man named Constantine(you do know him). Had it not been for him making Christianity the state religion for Rome the rest of the world probably would never have heard of him. Outside of Biblical reference there is almost no mention of him. You would be hard pressed to find much about him in any history books. There may be lots on his followers who tried to promote Christianity but not much on the man himself. Why do you think that is? After Rome did most of its raping and pillaging the world(and bringing their word of G-d), then colonialism jumped in there too. I challenge you to answer this. Had Christianity not been force fed to most other cultures how many people do you think would actually believe it? Especially if all there other freedoms were not taken away first.

    Check out a movie called “Constantines Sword”, you may find it quite enlightening.

    I think you need to travel more. You may begin to see something other than Jesus out there.;)

  16. July 13, 2009 at 9:03 am

    Had it not been for him making Christianity the state religion for Rome the rest of the world probably would never have heard of (him).

    I meant Jesus for “him”. Oops. 🙂

  17. 17 Deacon Blue
    July 13, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Tit for Tat,

    The Christian church survived centuries of intense persecution LONG before Constantine. And the evengelistic missions were long before Constantine. So let’s not credit him solely with the survival of Christianity. The writings of the New Testament that have survived and were copied in so many ways in different languages predated him.

    Constantine may have institutionalized the church, but it did not survive and spread solely because of him.

    I don’t need to travel to know that most of the world doesn’t hold to Christianity. That does not diminish Jesus’ divinity. If God was going to call all people to him by saying, HERE IS AN ALMIGHTY BEING NOW BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP ME OR ELSE, he wouldn’t need Jesus. He’d just loom over us visibly in the sky and DEMAND that we obey Him.

    Now, you can quibble all you like that that’s just justifying my faith and beliefs, but I’ll take a God who wants us to seek Him out and gives us choices (even the choice not to believe at all) over a slavemaster.

    So, no, lack of worldwide belief in Jesus is NOT an argument against his divinity.

    Are there other beliefs in which the divine is believed to have descended into a human? Sure.

    But I was talking about an entire package deal. A man who drew hundreds and even thousands to him while he lived, and never preached violence or overthrow or sought power for himself. Someone who, despite that, was considered dangerous enough to warrant crucifixion, one of the most heinous and awful forms of executiion ever invented.

    Someone who despite dying in what should have been a shameful manner, continued to have followers who followed him and lifted him up when the only logical course of action would have been to reject him and move on (unless they were fully aware he really had risen from the dead).

    The writings about Jesus in the gospel date to very close to his actual life. Meaning that their content could have been refuted, and should have been if there was no basis to his miracles or anything else.

    Historians did speak of Jesus at the time, and some even mentioned the environmental distubances that coincided with his death.

    If you talk about other people considered “divine,” how many of them had followings so large that disturbed priests and leaders of two different governments (Israel and Rome)? How many of them had writings (with no refutation) so close to their actual lifetime? How many of them rocked such a startling set of social ripples and non-traditional views with their words? How many did miracles (again, lack of refutation of these by Jewish priests and others makes it hard to say he was mere charalatan)?

    Adn before you start talking about Jesus-like parallels in other religions, they don’t exist. In almost all of those cases that people argue, the Jesus parallels were introduced AFTER Jesus…or they have been made up entirely by people who want to make like Jesus was just another permutation of earlier myths.

    So, in the end, you still haven’t given me one spiritual figure in which so much surrounded him and so much happened and he was (and is) considred divine, and his following endured so much persecution to survive and thrive against all rational and reasonable odds.

  18. July 14, 2009 at 8:48 am

    The Christian church survived centuries of intense persecution LONG before Constantine. And the evengelistic missions were long before Constantine. So let’s not credit him solely with the survival of Christianity. The writings of the New Testament that have survived and were copied in so many ways in different languages predated him.(Deacon)

    But the fact is, Christianity was very regional before Constantine. Also it was Constantine who got the New Testament to be read the way you read it today(Nicea 325AD). The Gospels became Church doctrine after his involvement with the church. Also he made it against the law to attack Christians and Christianity. As far as its spreading out, Constantine definately brought his brand of religion outside of its regional affect. You can thank him when you get to your idea of Heaven. 😉

    BTW, as I’ve mentioned before in other posts, I don’t think that one necessarily has to have heard of Jesus or lift him up to be given salvation from God. There are many people out there who are “born again” and don’t even have a freaking clue they are. Boy, is that arrogant of me or what? I actually believe that people can come to Christ and be saved without specifically getting baptized and declaring him Lord. Yeah, I’m so closed-minded.(Deacon)

    Statements like this one are what make me feel you are somewhat arrogant. Who are you to say anyone actually needs a Saviour? This is totally a Christian concept. Remember 2/3 of the world doesnt believe this stuff, so what makes you right and everyone else wrong. Close minded means not taking into account that you may be wrong(completely). I may be wrong about my beliefs, but mine dont require any belief in a Saviour on any level.

    Do you know why Jews dont like your concept of Jesus, because he trashed their religious leaders of that day. In other words he was saying their system was full of shit. How arrogant is that? First off their concept of Messiah wasnt even about G-d coming to earth in the form of a man. In fact that is blasphemous to their system. Early Christians were Jews who didnt like their system and decided to change it.

    I will be back later as my brain has now gone silent lol. 🙂

  19. 19 Deacon Blue
    July 14, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Again, why is it arrogant to think we need some help?

    I look at the mess we’ve made of this world, despite all our advances, and I’m not all that proud.

    So, given that we can’t even get social justice, human rights, environmental responsibility, etc. right, why is it arrogant to think that people probably don’t have their spiritual shit together?

    I’m amazed that if I suggest we need to look to spiritual development, I’m arrogant and painting people to be deficient.

    If I say that we need to work on race relations, if I say that we’re raping our planet, if I say that people don’t love each other nearly enough…is that also arrogant of me?

    I’m not pointing a finger and providing value judgments here. I’m not saying 2/3 of the world is evil. To be honest, I’m saying we’re ALL more evil than we should be.

    BTW, Jesus DID trash the leaders of Judaism, this is true. But I find your notion that he trashed the system to be absolute bunk.

    As for the Jewish standard of what the messiah (moshiach) will be, it should be noted that there is disagreement among Jews and other religious scholars as to when the concept of the messiah was introduced into Judaism and whether it has always been a part of the religion. Also, as with all things, Christian, Jewish or otherwise, religious texts are filtered through humans, and whether or not we get it right, given how much symbolism is involved, is always a matter of debate.

    But hell, maybe Jesus isn’t the Jewish messiah, you know? The Bible indicates that things aren’t done with this world yet and aren’t done in terms of the evolution of Judaism and the future of the Chosen People either. Maybe Jesus is “merely” a spiritual messiah…as I like to think of him, the bridge between man and God that was broken a long time ago. Perhaps the more exciting, get-shit-done-and-win-us-some-battles messiah for the Jews came already, or came in multiple forms, or still is to come.

    It doesn’t change my belief that Jesus is the son of God, that he is MY messiah, and that he plays the most important role on Earth in terms of bringing us to God

  20. July 14, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    Deacon

    Wow man, I am amazed. You make it work. I attempted at one point to view it in a way that makes sense, but I couldnt do it. I think I will bow out now. 🙂

    Maybe I can respond to some other posts. Hey how about some access to your erotica? lol. 😉

  21. 21 Deacon Blue
    July 14, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    One man’s sense is another man’s nonsense. 😉

    Much like weakness is made strength through God. 😛

    As always, you’re welcome to respond to any other posts, whether in debate mode or otherwise. I know I’ll see you around again, sir.

    As for the erotica though, that will have to remain my little secret. I could count on one hand (and still have a couple fingers left over) the people who visit here to whom I would ever consider handing knowledge of that other blog’s location. Nothing personal…and it’s a shame really that I can’t share, because I seem to have a knack for writing the naughty stuff.

  22. July 15, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    I don’t get the idea that believing that Jesus is the Son of God, the world’s savior and the only way to get into Heaven is arrogant.

    So all religions are arrogant or just Christianity?

    All religions have specific ideas about what is the truth about the way the world works. All of them.

  23. July 16, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Big Man

    The challenge lies in the fact that Christians cant prove it, but they still believe that they are right. I would say that borders on arrogant. If most Christains said they dont and cant know for sure but think it sounds like a good idea, then maybe more people wouldnt feel slighted. I would say its the certainty of a typical Christian that acts and sounds arrogant.

  24. 24 Deacon Blue
    July 16, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    But nobody can “prove it” Tit for Tat

    Why aren’t Jews arrogant for believing in a messiah that will unite the world under God and Isreal one day?

    Why aren’t reincarnationists (some of them Buddhist, many of them probably otherwise) not arrogant for saying you might come back as some filthy animal in the next life or have to repeat this life or whatever because you didn’t “get it right”

    Very few people who are faithful in their religion are going to say “Well, I can’t know for sure, so I’m not going to say I’m right.” Truth is, most of them will claim they are right but might allow for the fact that they don’t know everything. But they still think THEY are right. That’s true of all believers, of all faiths.

    I’m sorry if Chrisitainty seems “extra special” because there is an evangelistic component that seems more direct than with other faiths, but all faiths have their evangelism and a certain desire to bring people in, whether on a small, select, rare basis or a wided one. You won’t find many religions who say, “No, we really don’t want converts. We don’t really want to promote the good stuff about being one of us to the public.”

  25. July 16, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    You won’t find many religions who say, “No, we really don’t want converts. We don’t really want to promote the good stuff about being one of us to the public.”(Deacon)

    From what Ive seen of Judaism, they are not especially big on trying to convert anyone. As far as any religion that tries to convert and thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong, I would say they are arrogant too. Radical Islam is a case in point. I actually wish all faiths (who have a converting type agenda) would either go away or just be very quiet. If you cant prove shit, why would you threaten someone with eternal damnation(not saying you or Big Man)? I even wonder why you(who seems to be reasonable), wouldnt admit that it is only a hope that you are right(as you have no reasonable or logical evidence).

  26. 26 Deacon Blue
    July 16, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Go away or be quiet?

    Oh, that’s rich.

    So, should the Sarah Palin for President folks go away and be quiet simply because most of us think they’re nuts? Should Greenpeace pack it in? Doctors without Borders? PeTA? Etc. Etc. Etc. So many folks with so many causes and so many missions and their own brands of rhetoric and messages about “if you don’t do this, bad stuff will happen”…and it’s the religious groups who have to shut up and be quiet and not try to attract anyone into their fold. Yeah, that’s fair.

    No, don’t spread what we think is a good message. Just be quiet, sit in a corner, and hope we don’t get noticed.

    Sorry, won’t happen. 😉

    And, frankly, it should NOT be expected to happen.

  27. July 16, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    About as Rich as Evangelism. 🙂

  28. July 16, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Tit for Tat

    NOBODY can prove the existence or the non-existence of God. Nobody can prove how the life or the world was formed. Yet dozens of religions, along with scientists, believe they have those answers.

    You seem to apply a different standard the Christianity than to everybody else when it comes to what constitutes arrogance.

  29. July 16, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    TFT

    Why does evangelism bother you so much? If somebody says “Would you like to hear about Jesus?” All you have to say is “No.”

    Just like when they ask you to register to vote, or donate to the United Way.

    What I see here is that you think that your way of looking at the world is the default “right” way to look at the world. That’s cool. But, you have decided that it makes perfect sense for you to have that mindset, but it’s stupid for other people to feel that way. So, you hold other people to a standard you aren’t willing to hold yourself to.

    That’s called hypocrisy. Arrogance isn’t trying to spread your beliefs, whatever they are. Arrogance is assuming there is absolutely NO way you could be wrong, and then attempting to force other people to go along with you.

    That’s doesn’t seem to be the problem of the Christians on this thread.

  30. July 17, 2009 at 6:09 am

    Deacon and Big Man

    Thought you guys might like this.

    If somebody says “Would you like to hear about Jesus?” All you have to say is “No.”(Big Man)

    LMAO…If only it was this simple.

  31. 31 Deacon Blue
    July 17, 2009 at 9:55 am

    It’s that simple with most encounters, though, Tit for Tat. Even as a Christian, I will tune folks out and walk away when they annoy. But I’ve almost never been chased or harrassed.

    I post this response not having yet seen the YouTube clips you provided (I’ll check them out later), but guessing that they show some particularly aggressive proselytizers.

    Usually, “No thank you” IS all it takes. But there will always be jerks, whether Christians, Hare Krishnas (now, THERE were some aggressive evangelists when I was in college), people selling time-shares, etc.


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